Is being a slut a question of numbers or the attitude?
May 16th, 2009 | 
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An American friend of mine objected to my recent post about men NOT loosing their respect for you if you sleep with them too early on in the game. Although I find this appalling, I do have to take it into account, that some countries are still stuck in the 1950’s, and it seems USA is one of them although they should be leading the way. After the sexual revolution and all, they still want to stick women into a box, tie it up with a pink ribbon to be opened up on her wedding night and not a moment before.
Cultures that still put a guilt trip on sexually free women are trying to reverse the natural order of things: Women have the power in sexual relationships. They say when men can have it, when they’re going to have it and when they’re going to have to beg for it. Men don’t like that power, but they want to take it away from the women, and keep them constantly ashamed of their sexuality, because the more ashamed women are, the more it gives power to the men.
Getting slightly off the topic here for a moment, another friend of mine, a Finnish guy, once took a business trip to USA and had a meeting there with a bunch of people. The meeting was interrupted numerous times by people who were late, and he said that he suddenly realized that every time a man walked in late he was filled in on what had been discussed before the meeting moved on. If a woman walked in, even if she outranked the men, she would sit down in silence and the meeting would go on without anyone taking the trouble to fill her in. My friend found this incredibly disturbing and disrespectful, as he’d always been used to men and women being treated equal, in the work place as well as in the bed.
So maybe the trouble in these countries isn’t as much whether or not men will lose their respect for the woman after having sex with her, but that they don’t have respect for women, period. But if American women think that men will just suddenly give them the right to sleep around, they’re sadly mistaken. Rights are taken, not given. Finnish women were the first in Europe and second in the world to receive the right to vote, and they are not the type that take shit from men. The one time a guy I had slept with on a first date told me he “looses respect for women who sleep with him on a first date” I thought he was insane! It never crossed my mind that I should be ashamed of myself, quite the opposite, I thought he was being an incredible moron, and then I started thinking that what kind of a mother allows her son to put a value on people based on something like that.
When I was thinking about my American friends’ objection, I was thinking about sluts. What makes a slut in America is clearly not what makes a slut in Finland. (I would love to hear about Australian point of view on this, as I’m rather unfamiliar with it. I suspect it’s somewhere in between, but closer to the Finnish…) In Finland it’s not about numbers. Girls can have sex with as many guys as they want, if they have standards. What ever their standard is, is up to them, if it’s good looks, intellect, right words said at the right time, what ever, as long as they have standards that most guys will fail to meet. Also, a girl will hve to be able to go home after a night out alone if she didn’t find anyone interesting, and not lower her standards (too much) to get laid. A girl turns into a slut, when she has no standards and sleeps with (or makes a move on) any guy she sees, for the attention, acceptance or odd chance that he might love her. In other words, what makes a slut is desperation, not numbers, and in theory it is possible to be a virgin and be considered a slut in Finland.
When I was wondering about all of this, I emailed a male friend of mine in USA, who I know likes his casual very much, and asked him this same question. To my surprise he answered without a hesitation that yeah, totally he loses his respect for a girl if she sleeps with him, because if she does it with him, she probably does it a lot. (I was left to wonder what does it matter if she does it a lot anyway..?) But another thing he said was interesting. He also said that that is why they love the Finnish and Japanese girls because they are so sexually liberated. I asked him if that means that they don’t lose their respect for a Finnish or Japanese girl for having sex with them, but do so if the girl is American and should know better… I will tell you later what he replied if he does answer my email – and while we’re waiting, why don’t you tell us what you think.
I don’t know, all I can say about this that I personally don’t have respect for people who think people’s sexual behavior is something to pass judgement on, you either have it or you don’t and it’s not really anyone’s business how much, what kind, when and with whom you have it.
What do you think, is it a numbers game or a question of attitude where you come from, in your personal experience?
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Posted in Attitude adjustment, Sex | 
Tags: double standard, equality, expectations, feminism, Sex, sexual behaviour, sexual revolution, shame
Personally, as an Australian Male, and think that it is definitely an attitude thing. If you do or don't sleep with a male/female 'first time' (whatever that means, after the first time there isn't another first, even if it's with someone else!), surely that's a matter of choice, and not something to be judged at all. Talk about double standard – “I don't respect you 'cos you slept with me first time!” – well, hullo, so did you…
If you're into sleeping with as many people as you can, be you male or female, and give no thought or care to the need to be protective of yourself and others, then that is more of a concern. If however, you are clear about your intentions, and take care of the other (from a health point of view) then good luck to you.
On a further note, the female/male person who sets forth on a predatory search and conquer mentality is not someone I'd be interested in.
Interesting point you raise about power Sebastyne – I think 'you' (not you personally) haven't a hope in Hades of having sex with 'me' if I'm not interested, particularly so if you want to play power games. I'm not the type of man (and there are plenty of us) who isn't lead around by his knob (O: Women and men are led by what ever delusion takes them, and for some it's power, conquest, control – meh, just not interested (O:
I find it funny that men think that I might sleep with everyone If I sleep with him on a first date. Why on earth would I do that? It's so few numbers of men that really attracts, and If he thinks like that, he's so stupid. But then again that is also what my mum taugh me, never to be 'easy' for a guy, he won't respect you otherwise. Respect for her, of course she wants to save me from other peoples talk & not to mentioning ending up together with a wrong guy in a loveless marriage & kid, who doesn't deserve family like that.
I would love to comment more about this, but I'm going out. <3
Recomented book: Catherine Millet – The Sexual life of Catherine M.
This might widen the horizon also.
Ah, I'm so relieved, thanks Tim! I don't get the conquer type either, be it male or female, where quantity is more important than quality. There is a lot of area in between there, where there can be a lot of interesting people coming your way (the more attractive you are, the more people are coming your way, naturally) and simply putting in a number, say “more than 6 is a slut” is just plain stupid.
That is true Myrna, attractive men are not that easy to find, and if you find one, are you going to waste the opportunity by going: “oh I don't do that on a first date..!” It's like shooting yourself in the foot, we have needs too. (Up to a point at least. Better enjoy your needs while you still have them… :p)
I understand mothers willingness to kind of slow you down, I don't think there has ever been a mother cheering on a daughter to sleep with all of them and be easy, but… I was lucky that my mother never really made a point out of it at all. She kind of let me find my own way through the dating jungle, and I'm really really happy about that because that saved me from a lot of preconceptions that might have been outdated already. Things change, and they should change, and repeating things like “he will loose his respect for you and leave you once he got what he wanted” is hardly a fertile ground to build a real relationship on. After all, it gives you the idea that the only thing a guy could possibly want of you is sex.
I know it is all backward here in the US…and I totally agree the “lack of respect for woman” covers more than just the realm of sexuality. Men here have a false sense of “control the women by disrespecting them and making them feel like less so, I the man, am in charge!”…what they do not understand is the women lose respect for them when they do this to them…unless they are already low in self-esteem which is common due to the way the culture perceives women.
Your Finnish guy friend was right to be disturbed about what he witnessed in the business meeting because it is VERY common. A man is seen as important in a high ranking position where he is in charge, a woman is just “a ball-breaking bitch” if she is in the same position and holds the same power. The man and woman could even conduct themselves the same way in the same position and have that difference in perception from the other business collegues.
It doesn't help that the US culture still is brought up with the idea that a woman has children, keeps up the house, keeps her mouth shut on important manners, and fades into the background to support her man. Even if she has a fullt-ime job all the child reaering is expected to fall on her shoudlers, as is the upkeep of the house. Women here are also still paid less at jobs then men for doing the same job in the business world unless they are fashion models.
It is all incrediably backward and veyr disturbing and is why Ameircan women have so much anger and have to fight so hard to eb respected. The culture just isn't as “modern” as the US would like to think it is.
I am vanessa and ilove having sex with anyone
I am a Filipino and our culture is based on the strict Spanish-Catholic system. Although, in these modern times, many Filipinos engage in sex even before marriage, having sex with so many partners, is condoned and ridiculed as “immoral”. Premarital sex is not tolerated in our county but with the Western trends having so much great impact on our country, the Philippines, and because of poverty, even women work in the sex industries, and most of them go through any arm or length of means just to marry a European or American or even Japanese men to help them get out of their plight. Sex has become the means to get out of poverty. But generally, having sex with somebody outside of marriage is still deemed as intolerable and unacceptable. Not because we’re stuck in the 50’s , but because of our faith.